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Hi folks,
I'm trying to understand the origin of the butterfly swords an how they were adopted as as a method of training in all lineages.
I would like to keep this subject open to all claims barring those that deliberately counter claim the origin of another lineage, flame past or present practitioners and who would waste an opportunity for open discussion.
Thanks
Julian
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Hi Julian, welcome to the forum.
The butterfly swords/knives as I understand it were developed by the Shoalin as a 'personal' weapon. The main edge of the blade was blunt allow the jamming of a weapon/person and the top 3-4 inches were razor sharp. As the Shoalin monks were Buddhist they used to surgicly cut tendons to disable an aponent rather that kill them.
Over time smaller malitia groups and underground societies favoured this weapon as it was flat and easy to conseal under clothing. The Red Junk wing chun practioners (apparently) always had a set strapped to the upper thighs even when performing.
With regards to training the knives were again popular and easy to teach large groups of people a simple block/jam and thrust of 2 short range weapons was very easy to perform agaisnt long weapons or close range attacks.
Over time the use of swords dwindled and the fist was the more popular form, if you practice wing chun you will notice that a lot of the empty hand techniques and footwork can also be applied to the blades. Once you attain a decent amount of skill the swords (in theory) will help understand and refine the empty hand skills over time.
Personally I beleive the knives were Shoalin based, then passed onto Imperial armies during training then adopted by splinter rebel groups and eventually into the secret societies.
"using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation - Bruce Lee"
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Hi Kris,
thanks for the really interesting response.
Do you think the butterfly swords are a Fujian Shaolin influence, or have you heard of any other Chan origins?
It's interesting to hear that artists carried swords in the red boat era, presumably they drew attention to themselves as potential targets for thieves (carrying money to supplement their travel costs).
sincerely
Julian
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hi there
I've only heard of southern influence and my research has mainly found the origins in the south henan/fujian/shichuan regions.
One of the 5 monks who fled the temple at Henan and the temple at Fujian was known as Jee Shin (Chi Sim/Jee Sin Sim See) He posed as a cook aboard one of the red junk boats and taught the 6.5 pole technique to Leung Yee-Tai who already knew kung fu (and probably knew about the knives) and trained with Wong Wah-Bo. Outside of the boats Leung and Wong practiced toghether and exchanged ideas. There other southern arts which use the swords/knives too so again I think it all stems back to the Shoalin.
"using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation - Bruce Lee"
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Hi Kris
Popular history only really documents the exploits of Jee Shin, who I understand was the abbot of the fujian temple. (I might be wrong as my knowledge is limited.)
What ever happened to four remaining monks who fled the temple with him? There must be some families who benefitted from their knowledge aswell.
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well your correct a lot of emphasis is placed on this particular monk, the other 4 were:
Ng Mui
Bak Mei
Fung To Tak
Mui Hin
without going into the entire history a brief breakdown is this:
Ng Mui - was a abbess of the shoalin temple and the daughter of a general (Yue Fei) she was proficient in Yuejiaquan (Yue Family Fist) and is alledgedly the founder of Wing Chun, Dragon, White Crane and Five-Pattern Hung Kuen styles.
Bak Mei or Pak Mei left the shoalin to study taoism, mixed history claims he helped destroy the temples with the qing army where other accounts claim he saved the temples. Some people beleive his name was an alias for Fung To-Tak or Mui Hin and was created for stories or to protect a family history. His style of kung fu is a mixture and draws elements from tiger. The style still exists today: http://www.kungfu-academy.com/page.asp?pid=60
Fung To-Tak liitle is know about this one, again due to mixed stories he could have been Bak Mei or trained in the same style.
Mui Hin I dont know much about this monk only that he taught his daughter kung fu who in tern taught her son Fong Sai-yuk. He had his bones purposely broken and was bathed in dit ja jow from an early age making him impervious to attacks. Style of kung fu from Mui Hin is probably 1 of the main southern arts practiced today.
"using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation - Bruce Lee"
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